A Conversation With Tracy Liberty
You can hear the entire conversation on your favorite podcast platform.
This is a transcript of a conversation I had with guest Tracy Liberty and you are going to love hearing from her on this episode. Tracy is a shamanic practitioner/healer and psychic medium. Her healing practice focuses on allowing people to REBIRTH themselves by facilitating their transformation through intuitive guidance/channeling, soul tending, and ceremonial work. She also works with tarot and oracle cards to provide clarity for her clients when they are seeking answers and are doubting themselves.
Tracy will be sharing what she considers to be true kinship with animals and how she practices that with the animals in her own life.
JR: Welcome Tracy! It’s a delight having you here and getting the chance to explore with you your thoughts and experiences with true kinship with animals. Before we get started, can you tell the listening audience about your own animal family?
TRACY: Yes, of course. So right now, I have two black cats and they are siblings. The male cat is named Sunny and then the female cat, her name is Stella. So, that’s my animal family at the moment.
JR: Black cats are fun, for sure.
TRACY: Yes they are, misunderstood.
JR: Absolutely. What do you consider to be true kinship with animals?
TRACY: I really feel like humans have missed the mark to a certain extent in understanding that animals have a spirit, they have thoughts, they have feelings, they have autonomy. I think that human beings think they own their pets, that they know what’s best for them. So I feel that true kinship is really being in reciprocity with an animal, understanding that they have wants, they have needs, it just doesn’t come across, you know, through a voice, they’re not going to shout it out to you. So I really feel like it’s just understanding there’s more to animals than most people would think or have been taught.
JR: I totally agree with you on that. And even those of us who are thinking we are doing the best that we can for our animal family at any given time, there’s still more for us to learn. And there’s still a different direction we can go in. And that’s learning about the own sentience, the own agency of the animals.
TRACY: Right.
JR: I have to chuckle because I need to say we’re recording this on Zoom so there’s also video going on which won’t go over to the listening audience, but as you were talking about black cats, your black cat, one of your black cats, was behind you waving their tail at us.
(Laughter)
TRACY: Yes, that’s Stella. Can I share a really funny story about what happened like about fifteen minutes before this call?
JR: Absolutely!
TRACY: Because to me, it was a literal, a sort of a literal experience for me it was almost as if she knew I was going to have this call. She escaped from the house, she went outside, and they’re not outdoor cats. So she escaped and she’s running all around and what is interesting is normally she will immediately go under our deck, and she didn’t do that. She’s like looking up at the sky and you know we have fall leaves everywhere and she’s playing in the leaves and all these things kept catching her eye and she kept looking at me because I kept saying “Stella, Mom has a call to go on,” and I’m like “do you know what this call is about?” (laughter) So I was like explaining it to her both out loud and then kinda in my mind saying, I’m like “I get this is really nice, I’m enjoying it too. And I want you to play, but we do have to get back inside.” So she ran around for a little bit longer, got distracted by a chipmunk, which I thought for sure that was going to like do me in, but she stayed in the bounds of our property, she then just kinda, after like, you know I’d go toward her and then she’d run away. Finally I was just standing there and I kept saying “I understand. It’s an amazing day outside and I know you want to be outside.” And she just kinda stopped and looked at me and let me pick her up, and that was that. But it was this funny experience of the whole autonomy aspect. I kept saying to her “I can leave you outside and you’ll be alone and do whatever you want, but there might be consequences, and that’s up to you.” So I was also communicating that to her. And eventually I was like, this might go wrong, she might go away, but I really did feel like we were having a funny little conversation there with one another, and she did decide to just let me easily pick her up. So. (laughter)
JR: That is an excellent example of true kinship with animals AND true kinship with yourself!
TRACY: Yes
JR: It’s not an either/or thing, it’s not either the animal or the human, or the human or the animal, it’s about figuring out what works for everyone involved.
TRACY: Exactly
JR: And I think that’s one thing that’s misunderstood about true kinship with animals. Just by that phrase alone, it implies that it’s the animal only, but we’re animals too and that’s something that people forget about.
TRACY: Exactly
JR: What’s your favorite way to practice true kinship with the animals you come into contact with?
TRACY: I, in a way, I guess I — it helps, number one, to have the understanding that everything has a spirit. Not everyone has that belief. That definitely helps, so then that translates to your animal has a spirit, and once you have that awareness and understanding they have a life force (laughter), you can kind of, you can communicate with them. Really, to me it’s observing their body language. Body language is huge for animals for me in my opinion.
JR: Yah.
TRACY: Because they don’t talk with words. So they will really — a big way to understanding how to communicate with them is observe their body language and how they’re moving. And you can also just — I sometimes talk to them out loud, just have conversations, I’m that way in general, and other times I just tune into their energy. But you know, I have a little bit of an advantage in that area, being, you know, a psychic and kind of having that side of me more developed, but that’s how I do it, I suppose.
JR: Now do you find that, because you talked about that psychic side of you being developed, do you find that people need to have that professional development done, to work on that, or can anybody just connect with the animals?
TRACY: Yah, I think it’s similar to actually using your psychic sense. I think everybody is psychic, it’s just a matter of putting it into practice. So in my opinion, yes, if you’re willing and open, you can communicate with an animals. It might take time to develop, it’s just like our relationship, or any relationship you have with a human. It takes time some people might open up immediately and be really chatty. I’m thinking of the difference between dogs and cats, all of a sudden that just occurred to me (laughter. Dogs are like (happy panting sounds)) and cats are like “yaaaah, I don’t know about you”. They’re a little more aloof, and their energies are closed off sometimes.
Not all the time, but to sum it up, I think anybody has the ability to communicate with an animal.
JR: You know what I find fascinating in my experience in working with humans, is people will sometimes say they’re not intuitive when it comes to talking to animals, but yet they’re using their intuition everyday in a million different ways! Like finding the keys, or forgetting the grocery list at home and remembering everything that’s on it. And when that connection is made, it’s like a light goes on.
TRACY: Right
JR: I like seeing that, I love seeing that. That’s good to see that.
TRACY: I think it’s just about reminding people, just letting them know. And it might not occur for every person on this planet, but sometimes it’s just about “hey yah, you can do this”. Which is why I love this podcast. In that you’re inviting people on, but also just having the podcast in general, because you’re spreading the word (laughter) that there’s more than just “oh this is my pet and I own it”.
JR: Yes, thank you for saying that. Thank you. And I think given the society and culture we live in, where we are basically indoctrinated from birth that, you know, that animals are second class citizens and humans have dominion over them, we need help remembering that, no, that’s not true, you know.
TRACY: Yah
JR: That’s how colonized society looks at it, but you know, you don’t experience that, I don’t experience that and a million other folks don’t experience that.
TRACY: Yah.
JR: What have you found to be the benefits of being in true kinship with animals?
TRACY: I feel like over all, again talking about humans being animals, both humans and the animals are happier. We can really be of support to one another. It doesn’t have to be an either/or thing, it can go either direction. I do feel that the pet seems to be happier. I think a lot of people experience this, you might be able to speak to this too, but people experience their animals “acting out”. You know, behavior that is troublesome, or disrupts the household in some way. I think if you have a true relationship with an animal, kinship with an animal, you are able to tune in, again, see what they need, see what’s going on. Most people just get caught up in the frustration of it and they don’t know how to move past that.
JR: Exactly. And you know, my experience is that it’s just the animal saying “hey, I need you to listen to me. Hey, I need you to pay attention to something that’s going on here.” So when we look at it from that perspective and take away the perspective a lot of people use that the animal is acting out, or getting back at me for something. That’s a human thing, that’s not an animal thing.
TRACY: (laughter) yes the human projection thing.
JR: Yes, thank you for summing that up so nicely.
TRACY: Yah.
(laughter)
JR: You know, we had such a lovely talk on Zoom the other day as we were prepping for this and you had some questions you wanted to ask me. Are you ready to ask those?
TRACY: Yes I am, for sure.
JR: Go for it.
TRACY: So I’m just curious, how you started to communicate with animals. I was just wondering have you always been able to do it, or did something occur in your life and then the light bulb moment happened?
JR: It was something I was always able to do and I thought everybody could do it, it was just a part of kiddom.
TRACY: Hmmmmm.
JR: And then my parents said “Ah, don’t tell the neighbors you’re talking to that squirrel. They’re going to think we’re crazy.” So it was squished down.
TRACY: Yah, yah.
JR: And then what allowed me, enabled me, to bring it out in the open, so to speak, was probably about 20 years ago when I adopted a dog and he had house training problems. I went to the vet, worked with a trainer and then literally I was sitting in front of the fire place one day, lighting a fire, and this ad for an animal communicator fell into my lap. I was at my wits end.
TRACY: Uh-huh.
JR: So what I did was I called them, worked with them, and I realized they were doing what I thought was perfectly normal until it got squished down.
TRACY: Right.
JR: And so that was my introduction into who I am now and where I am now. And I have to say this was all because of my dog Teddy who I adopted from the humane society. He was the beginning.
(laughter)
TRACY: The catalyst.
JR: Exactly.
TRACY: Yah, it’s so fascinating. I think you just hit on a really important point as well that we tend to squish these things down, or think that it’s a big thing adults will tell their children “oh, you’re just imaging that. It’s not real. You can’t talk to that squirrel.”
JR: Right
TRACY: Which is very sad, but you know, it’s our culture.
JR: It’s our culture, exactly what you said. And what I find fascinating is a lot of times it starts with the imagination.
TRACY: Yes, yes.
JR: A lot of times the imagination can be the door that opens up to having conversations with animals. Whether it’s the squirrel in the backyard, the cat in your house or the horse in the barn or the bird in the tree.
TRACY: Yah, exactly.
JR: It’s really fascinating.
TRACY: Yah, I was also wondering in your work because I feel there’s so much to unravel in this subject of kinship with animals, how do you approach that with your clients? I know there’s probably not one — everybody’s different — but is there one sort of way of opening that door? Where people they get it?
JR: Yah, That can be a sensitive area for sure. And I am fortunate enough that I would say 99.99.99% I work with of the clients I work with are working with me because they have that deep love and respect for animals. So to tell them “yes this is great and there’s something more” is to be very careful in not dismantling the relationship they’ve always had and they’ve come to expect. But it’s building that relationship. And that’s one reason I love doing the podcast. It’s because of having guests come on, talking about my experiences, doing the little In Short podcast I do in 3 minutes or less, training tips for the human, so to speak
TRACY: Right
JR: it helps the humans to see there is something more and they can start where they are now in moving towards that true kinship. And I also find it very fascinating that a lot of people are already practicing true kinship without recognizing it.
TRACY: Yah.
JR: And I think that’s really essential to mention that so many are already doing this. But again, because of our society people think that to be in true kinship you have to have this checklist of 107 things and get them all done. Sometimes true kinship is 3 steps forward and and sometimes 7 steps back.
TRACY: Yes.
JR: The point is always being there.
TRACY: Right. Showing up.
JR: Showing up. Showing up, yah. And when you are your authentic self with the animal. For instance when you tell your animal companion “You know, I just don’t have the energy to do this right now,” they get it.
TRACY: Right. Um-hum.
JR: They understand it.
TRACY: Right. Um-hum.
JR; And the human projection that you mentioned when we put the guilt and shame on ourselves for thinking we’re not doing enough. And our companions, our domesticated animal family, are there, can be there, to help us.
TRACY: Right.
JR: I understand this, I understand that you are tired, I get tired too.
TRACY: Yah.
JR: Just like what you were having with your cat.
TRACY: Yes. It’s really beautiful. You know that guilt and shame aspect is huge and I think that would be something, you know, people with whom you work with, that’s the delicate balance. You don’t ever want to make anyone feel like you’re not doing enough or that you’re getting it wrong, per se. And it’s a lot of conditioning that we’ve had put on us.
JR: Right. And that’s the beauty about true kinship because that is individual with each person and with each animal they come in contact with.
TRACY: Right.
JR: And so of course it’s going to be different because the relationship is different. The animals….literally the time of day can be different, or the time in their life or your life it can be different.
TRACY: Yah, very true. It’s interesting how the things you’re saying are sparking little things for me. I had a — gosh I think she was 17 years old — a cat that passed in 2020. And then we adopted Sunny and Stella, and I haven’t had young cats for a very long time. Obviously because I had her, her name was Kitty, the cat that passed away. So it’s very different you know having an animal companion that’s aging, and then going through a death and dying process, and witnessing those changes. And again, holding space for her and asking what she needs. And then again, coming into contact and being around young kittens. So it’s been very fascinating to notice that particularly with my understanding, even though I feel like I’ve always been able to communicate with animals, you know as you age and mature that matures as well, and evolves. Just having a lot more mindfulness and presence around that. It’s really quite fascinating honestly, and beautiful.
JR: Absolutely. I always liken it to a kaleidoscope, you know you get a different picture by just turning a little bit, by using a little bit of different lens, and it’s really just gorgeous.
TRACY: Yes.
JR: And also I think once a person starts down the path of true kinship, let me rephrase that: once a person recognizes that they are practicing true kinship — it shows them a totally different aspect not only between themselves and the animals, but between the animals in their animal family. Everyone responds differently. And it’s a different response from you too.
TRACY: Yah. Definitely.
JR: Yah. It’s not one size fits all.
TRACY: No, they’re all unique. (laughter)
JR: I just want to tell the listening audience right now that my black cat Raven has been sitting here on my chest pretty much for the whole interview just taking everything in.
(laughter)
TRACY: Yah, there was one moment actually when I looked at the screen and he was directly staring at me.
(laughter)
TRACY: And I was like oh, connecting with a cat over Zoom, this is new.
(laughter)
TRACY: Oh. I love it.
JR: Yah. Are there any other questions you have for me?
TRACY: Yah, I guess that was a big part of it. But I was just also wondering from the animal’s perspective, is there anything in your work that you feel there is anything they want humans to know?
JR: That is a loaded, fascinating question!
TRACY: (laughter) Yah.
JR: Because it has literally changed over the years. And before, I work mostly with domesticated family animals. At the beginning it was yes, we love our humans, we want them to know how much we love them. And I think that was in part, because it can be hard for a human to hear an animal loves them.
TRACY: Yah.
JR: But as I started my work, oh my gosh, what was it, maybe six years ago in colonization and decolonizing the systems and everything, that has changed radically. And becoming aware of the animals’ agency.
TRACY: Right.
JR: And now, yes I still do get the messages that the animals are happy, they’re family, they want the humans to try and do something else AND they want the humans to be aware of their agency and take that into consideration.
TRACY: Right.
JR: And to not make assumptions.
TRACY: Yes.
JR: Yes.
TRACY: I agree with that.
JR: And you know, that can be difficult because the humans are doing the best they can and let’s say a human wants to adopt an animal, out of all the good reasons we humans want to do that, and the human, or the animal may not want to be adopted by that human. And that can be a lot to take in.
TRACY: Yah.
JR: That’s allowing for the animal’s agency.
TRACY: Right.
JR: And that’s one place where true kinship with animals, recognizing it and realizing it’s at a play between the humans and the animals and listening to what they have to say. That can really come in and help folks when something like that happens.
TRACY: Wow, that’s really making me think because I’m wondering if someone doesn’t have that awareness and they’re looking to adopt a pet, they would probably end up adopting the pet, getting the pet at home and then it just doesn’t work out. Do you think it could end up that way?
JR: Absolutely. And then they end up taking the animal back.
TRACY: Right. Which happens too often.
JR: It happens way too often. And you know, like you said earlier, you know, one way to communicate with animals is to watch their body language. One way to work in true kinship is to ask yourself all those hard questions when it comes to adopting an animal. And it’s just like, how will this affect the household dynamics.
TRACY: Yes.
JR: How will our schedules change? What will the animal feel if they’re used to being an only animal and all of the sudden they’re in a household with you know, 3 cats, 2 dogs and 7 horses out in the field?
TRACY: Exactly. I think a lot of people, I mean, animals are darn cute, and I think a lot of people have this sort of like fairy tale image and story line in their head, like “oh it’s going to be so perfect and they’re going to be great and cute and fluffy and it’s going to do everything I want it to do” (laughter). It’s like no. You have to think of actual real life issues and how that’s going to change your entire life really. Even if it’s a great fit, it’s going to change your entire life.
JR: Absolutely! It can be one of those things where you went to the grocery store and you get home and the roast is burning and you don’t have anything to feed the cats and the neighbor comes over saying ‘hey, can I borrow a cup of sugar’ and that’s the reality of it.
TRACY: For sure.
JR: And I’m not saying we can’t deal with all of that, that we have it all planned out, but we do need to ask those hard questions. About what am I going to do, you know, what are my options. What’s my support system.
TRACY: Right.
JR: That’s another thing that’s overlooked, in our relationship with the animal, having people support us.
TRACY: Yes.
JR: So we can support the animals.
TRACY: Yes, because sometimes the human just dumps it all on the animal.
JR: Bingo.
TRACY: And they don’t know that they’re doing that, necessarily, but,
JR: No, and they don’t mean to.
TRACY: Right.
JR: And again, they don’t mean to, it’s just our society. I’m guess I’m good at going against society. I like to think I’m good at it.
TRACY: Yah, I’m good at that too.
(laughter)
TRACY: We might be rare, but……
(laughter)
JR: We might be rare, but we’re persistent. There’s something to be said for that persistence.
TRACY: Yah, inspire other people.
JR: What is one take away you’d like to leave with the listening audience Tracy?
TRACY: I feel like we’ve touched upon so much of what I would want to say, in all honesty, I think it’s just important for me, I think it’s important to understand that animals really do want to be in a relationship with human beings. They want to communicate. They just want to……they don’t want to always have to take on all your stuff, and have you project all your needs on to them. I love what we just talked about actually, to me that’s probably the most important part of owning an animal is the human receiving support as well. Not just in outside life, just having that awareness, that it’s really challenging. Something I think I was talking to you about earlier when we connected earlier is how I used to watch Cesar Milan and he would always, ultimately says, this is about you, to the human being. He worked with dogs primarily, or he does work with dogs primarily. I was in my twenties when I watched that and I thought wow, that’s really fascinating. At that point I had never really thought about it at that level. So I guess that’s just for human beings to take a deeper look at what’s going on inside of them, if they do have pets in their lives. And you know, how’s my pet responding to me right now? What’s going on with my pet? People don’t even check in to that level.
JR: Yah, I hear you on that. And you know, it’s a learning process too. It’s a learning process. And that’s why it’s such a good thing there are persistent people as us doing this kind of work.
TRACY: Yes, definitely.
JR: Yes.
TRACY: Educating. Human awareness.
JR: Yes. And one thing you said earlier that I’d like to restate is that you believe everybody can communicate with animals.
TRACY: Yes. Um-hum. And that’s always a tricky one, I mean even in the work I do there are people who look at me and if I tell them what I do — you know when someone is OK, right. And that’s fine. That’s none of my business, that’s fine. That’s on you. But for people who are willing to show up, are willing to be open to that truth, it can unfold, it will work for you. That’s one thing, it’s really not that challenging. That’s one thing, if you’re willing to show up and actually just be present and be still and notice, it can happen.
JR: Yes.
TRACY: And you just kind of have to understand your animal’s own unique way of communicating and have that awareness as well.
JR: Yes I agree with you on that. And I would like to add one quick thing to that — there are times, when I’m communicating with animals, when I’m connecting with them, and I get absolutely nothing because the animal doesn’t feel like they want to share that information, or they may be tired, or what ever kind of thing.
TRACY: Yes.
JR: And I think that’s really important to mention to folks who are just beginning this journey, because going in with the expectation you’re communicating with an animal, you ask the question, they give you the answer, go on to the next question is ah, maybe, no. Animal may be tired, animal may be hungry, animal may not want to talk to you and that’s OK.
TRACY: Yes.
JR: And I think that another part that is undersold, I think, so to speak is when we get nothing, that’s still an answer. It’s not the answer we expected or wanted, but it’s still an answer.
TRACY: Yah. You know, granted, we don’t have anything else to compare it to, except human to human interaction. But there are some similarities. I do that in my life if I don’t want to talk, because I’m tired, because I have a headache, because I don’t feel great, because I’ve been talking all day. It’s the same thing, you know, and sometimes I don’t even tell someone I don’t want to talk. It’s just an energy kind of thing. (laughter) But yah, it’s like you said, you don’t necessarily, they’re not always going to be open to sharing with you. And that’s something that I’ve been doing that actually helps with that, it takes nuance, I suppose, it’s very subtle. That’s the thing about animal communication, it’s super subtle, Which that’s the challenge to it, I suppose. I actually ask for permission, not so much with my cats at this point, we’re kinda, they’re like ‘ok mom, no problem, you can chat with me when you want’, but with a lot of animals, when I’m getting to know them, I’ll check in and say “Are You OK with me communicating with you”. Same thing with human beings, if I don’t know you, I’m not really OK with you coming up to me and being like “hey, how are you doing, how you feeling”. So again, we have to respect that, as well, their boundaries, their autonomy. But a good way to doing that is just saying ‘hey, are you ok with me communicating to me right now’. And just sense, and if you get nothing, you try another time, maybe.
JR: Yah, right. And you know, you just use your manners, the good manners you learned in kindergarten. Please, may I and thank you.
TRACY: Right. Exactly. I like that.
JR: Tracy, how can people connect with you? What’s a good way to contact you?
Tracy: Yah, so I have a website, it’s pretty easy to remember. It’s www.tracyliberty.com and then on that there’s all my contact information. So I have all my social media on the website, so that’s a good starting place if you want to get in touch with me.
JR: And I will have that link on the show page too so people will be able to just click there and go over to your website.
TRACY: Awesome.
JR: Thank you for being with us today, I really appreciate this, and I’ll be talking to you later, OK?
TRACY: Thank you Janet.
JR: You bet.
Here’s an invitation for you to join me on this path of true kinship with animals. My work is devoted to helping you show up in the world for animals from the fullness of your authentic self. I hope this encourages you to look at your relationship with animals differently so that a new place of understanding begins to open for you.
Just for today remember: We all do better when all creatures do better. Until next time, take good care!
Janet Roper is an animist, podcaster, intuitive practitioner, non-traditional animal communicator, mentor and educator who for 20+ years has helped people restructure their relationship with animals. Two of her most popular resources are her monthly newsletter and her 5 email introductory series to her signature program Deepen. Visit her website and give her podcast True Kinship With Animals a listen.
